Charlottesville Area Masters of Real Ale

So... I was thinking about locations for our monthly meeting where we could actually taste each other's homebrew (since that is really the point of a homebrew club, which I think we've lost sight of or just simply have failed to act).  One possibility that I thought of was the clubhouse at Lake Monticello, which I can check into further if there is interest, but I'm guessing that it's too far for people as a regular meeting place. And several others, including Fermentation Trap, have also been raised as possibilities, but I'm not sure any of these would work for a regular monthly meeting place because of the distance outside of C-ville.
Then, I got to wondering what the actual rules were reagarding homebrew tasting.  What defines a BYOB establishment apart from a place that serves their own beer?  i.e. Why CAN'T we bring our beer to Court Square, other than "They told us their license doesn't allow it."?  And here's what I found on the Virginia ABC website:
In the Licensee FAQ section:
Can a restaurant conduct a private function and allow participants to bring in their own alcoholic beverages?
Answer:  Yes, only in a private room that is separate from the public. If the establishment has only one room then the entire restaurant must be closed to the general public.
In other words, the ONLY reason that we can't bring homebrew to CST is because they don't have a room that can be closed off to the rest of the restaurant.
I haven't been to many C-ville restaurants, but isn't there a place with an ABC license that would appreciate some mid-week business that has a separate room that we could use?  CST has been pretty nice to us, but frankly I feel like we could do better.  Sorry for my absence at October's meeting... but to be honest, my enthusiasm is dwindling. So let's get on with it, compile a list of restaurants with private rooms, see if we can work out a deal, and get to tasting some homebrew.

Thanks for the post and your enthusiasm in wanting to find a place where we can share.  This might be a good time to lay things out clearly.

The ABC rules might say that we can bring homebrew to a location if they have a separate room, but I’ve talked to a few restaurant managers who aren’t real keen on that idea.  Having the legality on our side still doesn’t make the decision for the manager or owner, and I have yet to talk to someone who even entertained the idea of letting us bring homebrew to their place.  They’ve never hesitated for a moment to say no.

So let’s say we find a place, but then we have to face the issue of why the place would let us have this room at all?  The answer, unfortunately, will always be money.  So, either we rent the room, or we buy the beer they sell.  Renting the room is almost always going to be a problem because we could easily blow through our yearly dues in the space of two months.  That might work if we continue to meet as we do now and meet at this rented room a couple of times a year. (Or do the park thing, but that means we can only do it when the weather is nice, and those times can conflict with weekend and vacation activities.)

A more attractive solution would be that we could buy beer at the location to make it worth their while (much like CST).  This is great because, although I want everyone to try my beer and I want to try everyone else’s, I’m not confident that *everyone* will show up with homebrew and will be willing to share enough to make no other beer necessary.  (Especially on a monthly basis.)  We are not filled to the brim with brewers who bottle or have to capability to bottle on the fly to share, especially for a meeting not too long after work.  So commercial beer is necessary and a vital supplement, but it makes the selection of the location important, too.  Bud, Miller and Coors on tap are not going to cut it for us.  And, if we find this place, members cannot show up without money in their pockets because we NEED to buy beer to fulfill our part of the relationship.

So now we start a laundry list of things we need to have in place to make this work.

1)   A geographically central location for all members
2)   A location that allows us to bring homebrew
3)   A location that
a)   lets us rent the space cheaply several times a year
b)   lets us use the space in exchange for buying beer there
4)   A place that has GOOD beer

These are not excuses, I’m just setting the table for the challenges we face. 

I cannot say that I am completely happy meeting at CST every month, but more than a few clubs exist that have met like that for years and years.  I would like to get to the point where we can swap and try, but we haven’t found the solution yet.  We can still swap, but not they way we want to and we cannot discuss things over the beer.  That is a problem. (I had brought one of my berliner weisse bottles to give to you last time.) During the last meeting, we did discuss a few options, and we can fill you in on those when we meet next time on 11/11.

What do the other members say?  We are open to help and advice.  What suggestions do you have?  Would you like to use our dues, and probably raise them, to have a place that allows us to share?  Do we need to do that every month or is it a quarterly thing?  If you know the area, where do you recommend?  We can follow up on these leads.

I know initially I was an opponent of moving the venue to Fermentation Trap because I live at Lake Monticello.  In retrospect, perhaps I was too hasty.  Fermentation Trap was going to let us use the space for free, right?  You can't really get a better deal than that.  And, furthermore, I can't ask you all to come out to the Lake if I'm not willing to make the trip to Barboursville.  I am one of those that you mention who don't bottle, but a growler that I fill in the morning will be fine to drink that evening.  Mind you, that's at least 1/2 gallon too, so I'm not convinced that we won't have enough beer.  Use the CAMRA funds to buy some back up if you're still nervous about having "enough". I know that idea might sound controversial at first, but the alternative that we are currently doing is individually shelling out ~$20 each week to CST on their beers and food. And if the Fermentation Trap let's us use their space for free, then we're saving rent money that can be used to buy commercial beer instead. We could also guarantee a representative selection of beer for our "style of the month". Maybe we should just try it and see what kind of turnout and results we get.  I'll have a Centennial IPA that should be ready by then, so I'll bring a growler if we do this.  If attendance stinks and we don't like using that venue for whatever reason, we can always go back to CST the next month. I'd like to try other peoples' homebrew enough that I'm willing to make the trip up to Fermentation Trap.

I'm sorry that I wasn't able to get your berliner, Jamey.  I also probably missed getting the keg parts from hoptical_allusions. Sorry I wasn't there guys.  I will attend next month regardless of where the meeting is held.  I suppose that I need to voice my opinions in the monthly meeting so that a decision can be made amongst everyone.  However, I am not willing to continue to meet at CST much beyond that. No offense meant to CST, but there are plenty of restaurants in C-ville with good beer lists (Basil, Mellow Mushroom, and Beer Run to name a few) and other options where we can bring homebrew (Fermentation Trap). I'm game for trying one of these other places next month.

P.S. I see I've been smited a fair amount.  +2/-3?  I don't know if it's because of this thread that I started or what. It is what it is.

Of course I agree with Jamey's points.

I too am frustrated that we cannot yet implement all the ideas that the three of us first envisioned when we started the club, but frankly, 1.) We knew that things were going to take time, and 2.) we're not really in an area that has abundant resources for us. (As I understand it, Fermentation Trap is the first brick and mortar LHBS this area has seen in over 20 years.) That said, we have to get creative, have patience, and remember why we get together: we are all passionate about beer, making beer and enjoy the company of others that share our interest.

Even though I do enjoy tasting each others homebrew, commercial beers need to be a central part of the club as well. We discussed this a few months ago - how do you know if you're hitting the style? We look at commercial examples for reference. That said, if we meet somewhere where WE are dependent on supplying those styles, then there are more factors that we really need to think about (equipment, supplies, money, and much more of a commitment from our members). It's also important to have variety. There needs to be offerings for those who don't care for the style of the month. Otherwise, why would they come? It's not fun going to a beer meeting and not having anything to drink. True, they could bring their own...but they could stay home and drink too. That's not the point. Point is at a place like CST, there are monthly specials, new things coming in from distributors, etc. So what, that's commercial? True, but we've ALL had that one beer that we never tried before and said: damn, I want to make that! Can we really ask all our members to BYO to every meeting? I could be wrong, but I'm not sure that would fly over too well.

I know that some of you are unhappy so I encourage every member to make calls, and seek out an alternative location that hits on all the points that Jamey made. No, I'm not saying CST is ideal, nor do I think we'll be there forever, but I challenge anyone to find a quiet place that can accommodate anywhere from 5 to 30 people, with a better beer selection, free meeting space AND is central to everyone (ideally, South of the Airport, North of 64, within Charlottesville limits). Who knows, maybe that should be our club's first "contest". I know that Fermentation Trap has been thrown out there, and that is an option that we could explore, provided they can accommodate us. (I've only been there a few times, and aside from their showroom, I'm not seeing another possible space.)

It would be great if an option like FT would work and our members were ok with that location (may be a bit North for some), then every other month could be at CST or FT. That would solve a lot of issues - we'd be able to have the commercial examples and the following month, homebrew. It's not the "ideal" situation, but it could be pretty darn close!

A second Jamey: What do you all think? What are your opinions?

This is the first that I've heard of Fermentationtrap being a meeting place option.  I've never personally heard them mention it and I don't know if they are the appropriate place for this sort of thing.  (Location, set-up, etc.)  I don't think they have their ABC license yet either.  Have you spoken to them? 

I know the Layfayette Inn up in Stanardsville was mentioned once or twice, but that is a haul.  (Even for those of us who live north of town.)

The admin smiting gods have done their resetting magic.

Again, I open this up to the group for comments and ideas.

Spidey - No worries about the berliner.  I was going to bring it to the September meeting, but I missed that one with a work obligation. 

I'll bring another next month.  These are not going fast because not many people get/like them.  And that means more for me. 

I would like to throw my two cents in there.  As is true in most things, what might be best is an average of the ideas mentioned.  The things that are crucial, in my opinion, to keep the club moving forward, are:

1) People who share a common interest in homebrewing
2) Ability to taste, enjoy, and talk about each other's homebrew
3) Solid supply of "good" beer to drink during the monthly meetings
4) Sporatic special events (tastings, parties, etc.) to shake things up and prevent stagnation
5) Club members that provide input to help us move the club forward

If we look back over our first year as a club, so far, we can see that we have done pretty well on items 1 and 3.  I think we can improve upon the other items, and, as Spidey mentioned, item 2 is of particular concern.  We are a homebrewing club and we need to be able to sample each other's beer to be able to talk about it.  That has happened only once so far this year as an official club event, which was Evan's tasting.  I would like to see more opportunities in doing this, though it does not need to be every month.

The things I would like to see happen to support the tenants listed above include:

- Continue to look for alternate meeting locations (I am not tied to CST, but they are convenient).  If we find one, definately give it a try, but it needs to offer commercial beer for sale.  I think it will be difficult for us to supply the entire group, every month, with homebrew as the only thing available.  We could bring in commercial beer, but that takes work organizing and would limit the variety available.
- Hold quarterly special events that provide us opportunities to meet in other locations, sample each other's beer, and do things as a club (tours, speakers, tastings, etc.).  We are already starting to plan the next one of these as the CAMRA birthday party in early Feb.  Jamey, Christopher, and I could definately use help in this department.
- Hold regular monthly meetings so that we at least have a consistent meeting that we can get together to chat
- Have Club members offer feedback, like Spidey has.  This is CRITICAL, as we are not getting a whole lot of information provided back to us about where you guys want this to go.

I'd be up for hosting a tasting or two at my place. I thought the homebrews that people brought to Evan's place were really good (I brought the keg of cider) and the bread made from leftover grain rocked. I'm close to downtown, on Locust Ave, a block and a half north of Martha Jefferson hospital. I dont have as good of an outdoor space as Evan, but my basement is about 1400sf and can hold a lot of people, so is good for the colder months. I'm having a party here on Saturday if you want to come by and check out the space (see posting on the beer events thread) PM me if you want the address. Pics of the space are here: http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp204/CvilleKevin/RoomFront.jpg and here: http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp204/CvilleKevin/RoomBack.jpg

Hey All,
Not too many new ideas to add to the expansive list growing in this thread. I'm glad that CAMRA is alive and kickin' and a I agree with all the suggestions and feedback everyone's made. Of course I want the ideal situation: a stellar meeting spot with homebrew a' flowin', commercial beer if we run out, accessibility for everyone, and on and on. In reality it seems that it might take a while. But what can CAMRA do when nobody votes for the fall picnic get-together? Or even bothers to comment on this topic? I remember listening to a Brewing Network show about how to start a HB club and they couldn't stress more the importance of discussing, tasting, and drinking homebrew amongst the club. I was like, "duh", that seems a given although its proven to be more difficult than at first glance. I've had the opportunity to try others' beers and hang out and am thankful for the friendships and brew-talk that CAMRA's provided. Would I like more? Sure! Maybe I can set up a future tasting session chez moi. I dunno. Maybe more will chime in. Sorry for the slow post. Carry on CAMRA-ites. We share part the barley sea and pass on through to the promised land of golden Pils and inky Stout soon enough.

Kevin, thank you for the offer.  Given the chat on this thread, we are planning to talk about a different place to meet for the December meeting on November 11, our next CAMRA meeting.  One of the places we would like to consider would be your basement.  It might offer a nice change of pace from CST and we could bring homebrew.  That meeting would be December 2.  Would your place be available for that evening?  We have not decided anything, but wanted to know if it was an option.

Thanks.

December 2nd works for me. I'll be at the meeting on the 11th

Without a chance to share HB, I, like Spidey, will have trouble justifying a drive from Greene Cty, a babysitter, and a $25+ tab for food/drink.  I will attend for interesting topics, but otherwise, HB was the main reason for the season!

The idea of an every other with the bar then the HB sharing is perfect in my opinion.

I know for a fact that FT does not have a liquor license.  There is so little available space now that they are deciding about getting a place 3 times the size and still keep the old (current one).  That is not an option yet. 


Also, someone tell me how to smite someone.  I never played Dungeons and Dragons, so I do not inately know how.