Charlottesville Area Masters of Real Ale

What techniques, tips, and equipment come in handy in removing trub (aka break, gunk, sludge) from your wort/beer and refining your end product?

A good, solid, extended, rolling boil for a nice hot break (if it looks like egg drop soup, you're on the right track). A rapid chill for cold break (counterflow chillers are very effective, more so than immersion chillers, and easier to clean than a plate chiller). And always add Irish Moss, or, if you can get some, SuperMoss during the last 10 minutes of the boil. Great stuff. Our beers always end up really clear.

I have had excellent success with Whirlfloc tablets with my last few brews which included an English brown ale, Christmas ale, and a couple of lagers. I really liked the way that the excess proteins precipitated out and made these beers clear.  The beers tasted better and almost no chill haze formed when I refrigerated the beers.  But then I recently made a dunkelweizen... What to do? Do I add the tablets or not?  I was really on the fence about adding Whirlfloc to a wheat beer.  On one hand, I thought the beers actually tasted better with the tablets, like some off-flavor (can't really put my finger on the specific taste because it was very subtle, but definitely present) was removed by the precipitation.  On the other hand, wheat beers should have protein (and yeast) left in solution to create the characteristic haze. Forums had mixed recommendations on this. Do Whirlfloc tablets remove too much protein from wheat beers? Anyone done this?  I guess what it comes down to is whether the taste benefit outweighs the potential loss of haze.  Opinions?  (FYI, My final decision was to NOT add the tablet, maybe next time I'll add it.)

Before you add the wort to the fermentor:
You can whirlpool the cooled wort in your pot/keggle. The hot and cold break and hops will settle to the bottom of your pot within 20-30 minutes. If you stir the wort before letting it settle, it will (hopefully) settle as a cone so you can rack most of the wort into your fermenter leaving the break and hop material behind.

After fermentation is complete:
Cold condition the beer. Drop the temperature of the beer down to 35 degrees and hold for 1-3 days. Most of the excess yeast and particulates will drop out of suspension, and you'll have crystal clear beer (but still have plenty of yeast to bottle condition). I'll do this for smaller beers that don't require extended secondary conditioning.

Whirlpooling is probably overkill, especially if you secondary or cold condition. Some beer book authors say to get as much of the break/hop material out or it will give your beer off-flavors, others say it is better to leave it to give your yeast more nutrients and will help round out yeasty flavors...so go figure. It may be beneficial for very delicately flavored beers (pilsners, blonde ales, etc.) to keep as much trub out of the fermenter as possible. I'd think that even with most of trub out of the fermenter there will still be plenty of nutrients for the yeast.

For smaller beers (O.G. < 1.050), I'll skip secondary fermentation altogether. I'll ferment for 2-3 weeks, and towards the last 1-3 days I'll drop the temp to 35 degrees. The result is crystal clear beer. (I bottle everything.)

I recently added a second primary fermenter (6.5 gallon glass carboy) with the intention of skipping secondary fermentations whenever possible. I haven't tried cold-crashing in the primary yet but am glad to hear that you've had success with the technique. Out of curiosity, why don't you use the same technique with beers bigger than 1.050?

I've been using Whirlfloc and Irish moss (not at the same time) and haven't seen too much of a difference yet...

I know there's a wheat style known as "Kristall Weizen" that's basically a "de-hefe'ed weizen" (sans yeast) and its typically packed with flavor. But then, I'm not a wheat brewer yet, so what the hell do I know!

I know Jamil Z isn't bothered by trub..but then he's a bit of an exception. Or is he? I'm sure I can artfully craft a beer without stainless recirculating super whirlpooled brew systems. Those were a lot of adjectives.

If it's a bigger beer, especially 1.070 and above, I'll usually make sure that it gets time in secondary to condition. I don't like the beer to sit on the original yeast cake for over 3 weeks (so typically no more than 3 weeks in primary). If the beer sits in secondary for an extended time (months), I'm usually leery to cold condition it being worried that the yeast will be overstressed. Otherwise, I'll cold condition everything before bottling (unless its a hefe or similar).

Heh...whirlpooling can be fairly simple. See an article on it here: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Whirlpooling
One advantage to whirlpooling is you can easily harvest yeast from the primary fermenter, as the trub material is free of most hot and cold break material.

I think the overall consensus with keeping the trub material out of the fermenter is that it is only most necessary when doing lager style or other very pale beers, as the off-flavors from fusel alcohols can be noticed. Also, it is interesting to note that more off-flavors can result from excess trub in the fermenter if the wort is not adequately aerated prior to fermentation. I have pasted some exerts about this topic from familiar beer books below:

New Brewing Lager Beer, Noonan (1996) pgs 170-171
    “…trub carried into the ferment taints the beer with objectionable flavors and aromas.
   Proteinaceous precipitate from the hot and cold breaks forms the greatest part of the trub…yeast react to an excess of simple protein by generating aromatic fusel alcohols.  Fusel alcohols are subject to esterization, which produces fruity and solventlike odors that are inappropriate in a lager beer, and to oxidation, forming ‘stale’- tasting aldehydes.
   Trub also contains polyphenols, ketones, and sulfur compounds…Polyphenols give astringent-tasting, mouth-puckering flavors. Volatile sulfur compounds produce rotten-egg, skunky, onionlike, rubbery, and burnt-match flavors and odors”

Dave Miller’s Homebrewing Guide, Miller (1995) pg 171
   “…trub (hot and cold break material) contains a large proportion of [sterols and unsaturated fatty compounds]…Unfortunately, high trub levels in the wort lead to high levels of fusel alcohols in the finished beer. For this reason, it is important to separate as much of the trub from the wort as possible.”

Dave Miller’s Homebrewing Guide, Miller (1995) pg 181
   “…trub leads to off flavors and can actually harm the fermentation in later stages…However, cold trub is not nearly as damaging to beer flavor as is hot trub, and many ale breweries do not bother with it.”

The Complete Joy of Homebrewing, 3rd Edition, Papazian (2003) pg 126
   “The presence of trub in the fermenting wort does affect fermentation and flavor, but for a homebrewer its overall significance is slight…Relax. Don’t worry. Have a homebrew.”

How to Brew, 3rd Edition, Palmer (2006) pgs 94-95
        “There will be a considerable amount of hot break, cold break and hops in the bottom of the boiling pot after cooling. It is a good idea to remove the hot break (or the break in general) from the wort before fermenting. The hot break consists of various proteins and fatty acids which can cause off-flavors, although a moderate amount of hot break can go unnoticed in most beers. The cold break is not considered to be much of a problem, in fact a small amount of cold break in the fermenter is good because it can provide the yeast with needed nutrients. The hops do not matter at all except that they take up room.
         In general however, removal of most of the break, either by careful pouring from the pot or by racking to another fermenter, is necessary to achieve the cleanest tasting beer. If you are trying to make a very pale beer such as Pilsener style lager, the removal of most of the hot and cold break can make a significant difference.”

Cheers!

-Jon

I do all the above with a boil of at least 2 hours for all grain, Irish Moss at the beginning of the boil, counterflow chiller, racked twice from primary to secondary to keg with no filtering, sits for at least 6 weeks, and after 2 months I have crystal clear beer.

I get a good boil going for hot break and then quickly cool it using my immersion chiller and a bucket of icewater.  Then I whirlpool and siphon off of the whirlpool.  I have been getting clearer beers since I started trying this.  I like the cold crashing idea, and I will have to try it on my next ale.

You all have got great ideas. That being said, I've recently "conducted" the ultra-lazy man's version of a science experiment with American Stout. It basically amounts to dumping all the trub into the fermenter and not worrying about it. Yep. I really did it: hops, break, excess gunk--straight into the glass carboy. With a healthy pitch, proper sanitation, temperature control, and gettin' it off the yeast cake in less than 3 weeks, I reckon it won't hurt a bit. That being said, if it sucks you'll never hear about my "Superstar Stout" again.
Word.

Well, Greg, we expect to be informed of the results of your experiment, REGARDLESS of those results!  Get your bar graphs and charts ready!

I suspect you will not have any trouble, other than you will loose space in the fermentor and get less out when you rack off to your keg.  But, you would have lost that beer anyway if you left the gunk behind in the kettle.  You might have a slightly cloudier (is that a word?) beer.  But, with a stout, who cares.

Cheers.